His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
the Hare Krsna movement)
His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
the Hare Krsna movement)
Indian man: That's where the problem in India is. Everyone is saying God is Maha-Visnu, and Krsna and Rama are only avataras, and that's where the big argument came in. In fact, I talked to so many...
Prabhupada: Otherwise why Suta Gosvami, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]? And Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. So how one can say like that? That means less intelligent. If Krsna... If one accepts the authority of Bhagavad-gita, Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. Then how they falsely say? Aham adir hi devanam. Find out this verse.
na me viduh sura-ganah
prabhavam na maharsayah
aham adir hi devanam
maharsinam ca sarvasah
Prabhupada: Sarvasah. (Hindi)
Indian man: No. Never. He has no reason to cheat us. He has no reason to lie.
Hari-sauri: Shall I read the...?
Hari-sauri: "Neither the hosts of demigods nor the great sages know My origin, for, in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages." Purport?
Hari-sauri: "As stated in Brahma-samhita, Lord Krsna is the Supreme Lord. No one is greater than Him; He is the cause of all causes. Here it is also stated by the Lord personally that He is the cause of all the demigods and the sages. Even the demigods and great sages cannot understand Krsna. They can neither understand His name nor His personality, so what is the position of the so-called scholars of this tiny planet? No one can understand why the Supreme God comes to earth as an ordinary human being and executes such commonplace and yet wonderful activities. One should know, then, that scholarship is not the qualification necessary to understand Krsna. Even the demigods and the great sages have tried to understand Krsna by their mental speculation, and they have failed to do so. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also it is stated clearly that even the great demigods are not able to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They can speculate to the limits of their imperfect senses and can reach the opposite conclusion of impersonalism, of something not manifested by the three qualities of material nature. Or they can imagine something by mental speculation. But it is not possible to understand Krsna by such foolish speculation. Here the Lord indirectly says that if anyone wants to know the Absolute Truth, 'Here I am, present as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I am the Supreme.' One should know this. Although one cannot understand the inconceivable Lord who is personally present, He nonetheless exists. We can actually understand Krsna who is eternal, full of bliss and knowledge, simply by studying His words in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. The impersonal Brahman can be conceived by persons who are already in the inferior energy of the Lord, but the Personality of Godhead cannot be conceived unless one is in the transcendental position. Because most men cannot understand Krsna in His actual situation, out of His causeless mercy He descends to show favor to such speculators. Yet despite the Supreme Lord's uncommon activities, these speculators, due to contamination in the material energy, still think that the impersonal Brahman is the Supreme. Only the devotees who are fully surrendered unto the Supreme Lord can understand, by the grace of the Lord, that He is Krsna. The devotees of the Lord do not bother about the impersonal Brahman conception of God. Their faith and devotion bring them to surrender immediately unto the Supreme Lord, and out of the causeless mercy of Krsna, they can understand Krsna. No one else can understand Him. So even great sages agree, 'What is atma? What is the Supreme? It is He whom we have to worship.' "
Indian man: In my class I run into lot of arguments, especially from our Indian people, and this is one of the biggest arguments people pose. They say, "Why are you calling yourselves Vaisnavas and not Krsnayas?"
Indian man: If I call Krsna, I accept Krsna as Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then the question comes to me, "Why are you calling yourself Vaisnavas? Why not Krsnayas?"
Prabhupada: That already is explained, that Krsna or Rama, Visnu, Narayana, They are all visnu-tattva. Therefore Visnu is the common word for everyone. Just like candle. Everyone is candle, but still, this is first candle, this is second candle, this is third candle, like that. So Godhead means all visnu-tattva. They are not jiva-tattva. So therefore those who are devotee of God, they are called Vaisnava.
Hari-sauri: This specific Vaisnava, that refers to Visnu? Worshipers of Visnu?
Prabhupada: Yes. Visnu asyra devatah iti vaisnavah.(?)
Indian man: Throughout Vedas also, Visnu is the yajnesvara.
Prabhupada: The supreme, yes.
Indian man: Yajno vai visnuh.
Prabhupada: Visnur aradhyate. Visnur aradhyate, nanyat tat-tosa-karanam. Varnasramacaravata purusena parah puman visnur aradhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. Visnor aradhanam. Aradhananam sarvesam visnor aradhanam param **. These are the sastric..., that visnor aradhana. Krsna-aradhana is also visnu-aradhana.
Indian man: In fact, even Brahma-samhita, Brahmaji says,
yah karanarnava-jale bhajati sma yoga-
adhara-saktim avalambya param sva-murtim
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
"So Visnu is creating all the planetary systems. He's in His yoga-nidra, He is the original Govinda, and I worship Him." So that is why both names are used so synonymously. And that is why people are questioning me, and I have difficulty to answer them. Although I accept Krsna as original Personality of Godhead, but how to explain to them?
Prabhupada: No, these are the references.
Jayadvaita: In here also. Should I read the verse? "All other incarnations are potentially situated in the original body of the primeval Lord. Thus, according to one's opinion, one may address Him as any one of the incarnations." Purport: "It is not contradictory for a devotee to call the Supreme Lord by any one of the various names of His plenary expansions, because the original Personality of Godhead includes all such categories. Since the plenary expansions exist within the original person, one may call Him by any of these names. In Sri Caitanya-bhagavata Lord Caitanya says, 'I was lying asleep in the ocean of milk, but I was wakened by the call of Nada, Sri Advaita Prabhu.' Here the Lord refers to His form as Ksirodakasayi Visnu." Translation: "Some say that Sri Krsna is directly Nara-Narayana, others say that He is directly Vamana. Some say that Krsna is the incarnation of Ksirodakasayi Visnu. None of these statements is impossible. Each of them is as correct as the others." Purport: "Laghu-bhagavatamrta states,
ataeva puranadau kecin nara-sakhatmatam
mahendranujatam kecit kecit ksirabdhi-sayitam
sahasra-sirsatam kecit kecid vaikuntha-nathatam
bruyuh krsnasya munayas tat-tad-vrtty-anugaminah
'According to the intimate relationships between Sri Krsna, the primeval Lord, and His devotees, the Puranas describe Him by various names. Sometimes He is called Narayana; sometimes Upendra (Vamana), the younger brother of Indra, King of heaven; and sometimes Ksirodakasayi Visnu...' "
Prabhupada: They are all visnu-tattva.
Indian man: In fact, I remember very vividly that in Srimad-Bhagavatam you wrote that it was Ksirodakasayi Visnu who came down to bless Dhruva Maharaja when the planetary system started trembling due to his tapasya here. Ksirodakasayi Visnu. This is why people are questioning me continuously that "How can you call Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not Visnu?" And I say "All are visnu-tattva." But it is very difficult to explain to them the actual position of Krsna, because only through chanting...
Prabhupada: That is decided by Bhagavatam, ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28], that tu, the name Krsna, in the incarnation of God, Krsna is also included, but this Krsna is the origin.
isvarah paramah krsnah
anadir adir govindah
Prabhupada: So we have to take the direction. So that is also explained. Even if you say, "Krsna is Vamana," there is nothing wrong. If you believe that Krsna is incarnation of Visnu, there is nothing wrong.
Indian man: I don't believe that.
Prabhupada: No, no, others. Others...
Indian man: I believe Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupada: Others. We simply accept, "Yes it is all right." That's all. So that's a fact, because when Krsna comes, He comes through Ksirodakasayi Visnu.
Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York
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